My friend Jodie Evans pointed out to me a misleading statement in my last essay. I want to rectify it. I said, “The policies of two generations of Palestinian and Israeli leadership have both brought the very opposite of what they intended to achieve.” Then I went on to mention, as examples of the policies of the Palestinian leadership, “violence, terrorism, and rocket attacks.”
I despaired at your omissions, Charles. Thank you for what you have corrected, but I think you may want to go further. Why did you choose to rewind their history for only two generations? Why not go back to the illegitimate colonial project of British elites and a handful of Zionists to dispossess the Palestinians of their ancestral home? Why should Palestinians pay the price for the millennia of maltreatment of Jews? Half of Gaza’s residents are children who had nothing to do with the ascendancy of Hamas, or any other governing body, for that matter.
For god’s sake, here in America millions of people actively working to hold government to account appear to have no agency whatsoever. What do you expect the largely unemployed, undereducated, underfed (purposely, by Israel) masses of Gaza to do about ‘their’ leadership? You acknowledge awareness of the bloodbath that took place during the 2018 March of Return. Do you suggest they should have attempted an encore in preference to armed resistance? What options did they have? I would suggest none.
"By not including this and many, many other nonviolent peace actions in my description of the policies of the Palestinian leadership, I created a false impression that they have only attempted violence.”
By saying next to nothing about the countless violent actions Israelis and their government have taken against the people of Palestine over the last 75 years, you spoke volumes. Gideon Levy, Norman Finkelstein and a bare handful of other Jews seeking justice could not have been so remiss.
RFK has gone well beyond taking sides — he has chosen his masters. His recent ahistorical rhetoric is shockingly unmoored from-reality. When he promised us he would listen, we did not think he meant to The Lobby.
Israel is not “at war” with a foreign entity, let alone a foreign state. Gaza is an integral part of Israel. “There is one regime governing the entire area from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea,” Israel’s leading human rights organization, B’Tselem, observed some years back, “based on a single organizing principle” of “Jewish supremacy.” What happened on October 7 was a slave revolt INSIDE Israel. Who would condemn any other group in history for attempting to escape a concentration camp? Nobody was coming to help these people. What else could they have done after many failed peaceful protests, we expected them to lie down any die. They did not.
The brutal blockade supported by the US even denied them basic supplies, food, electricity and even water. To call their attempts to breach the walls of their prison a “terrorist attack” is callous and cruel. This was a slave rebellion. Norman Finkelstein lays out the history in this video for people who want to learn https://normanfinkelstein.substack.com/p/video-recording-and-transcript-special his book Gaza is also excellent.
palestine is the homeland of judah, judea. the tribe of judah and benjamine. They are the closest to the true jooish bloodline of jeshua's day. the northern tribes 10 lost, are the slavs aka russians.
The khazarian mafia hae always had a vendetta vs the victims of their mafia murders. They want to genocide slavs, persians, and judah. The chutzhpah of killing someone and their family, stealing their identity, and using it to make the other members of that family pay blood reparations. A nice mafia con. Even ghenghis khan would have admired it.
These are secert alliances and combinations, that Ether 8 warned of.
Perhaps RFK Jr did listen, and simply reached a conclusion different from yours. Are you the holder of the pure truth in this issue?
If you had neighbors on all sides of you that wanted to see you dead and tried, over decades (actually centuries), to achieve that goal, what would you do?
And there have been a number of governments overthrown by the "unwashed masses". If the Palestinians truly want different leadership, they must fight for it. There will be bloodshed, but if you are not willing to die for something, I have to wonder what you are really willing to live under.
'If the Palestinians truly want different leadership, they must fight for it' What? I think that sometimes we who live incredibly much easier lives than people in a war zone, forget that we have NO IDEA what could happen to a human living in such conditions. FROM BIRTH to untimely death moreover. Can you imagine for one second being a woman with, say 4 children, living in poverty amongst the rubble of what used to be a home, wondering where the next drink of water is coming from - food? Where the bombing may start up any minute and when the rest of the world appears not to care but instead, to support the side that calls you an 'animal'. I can't imagine how I would cope. I know I wouldn't have any clear thoughts about political mobilisation in those circumstances, I'd be so hungry and afraid and bewildered, I'd be lucky to shit straight. Becoming mobilised to have tea parties with my neighbours and talk about how we can pool our resources (remember, we have none, not even proper wifi, perish the thought) and somehow overthrow the bunch of those (Hamas) who have been driven completely insane with hatred and revenge and now are as bad as the oppressors? 'There will be bloodshed...' uh-huh, course, yeah sure, easy - duh..' What, Neil, in the (assumed) comfort of your own existence in a non-war zone (assuming), are you willing to die for? Or perhaps you are already in a war zone and willing to die for whatever is being fought for? Water? Food? Free speech? Faster internet? Or is it merely just to have your children alive at the end of the day?
Great comment. I think very few of us reading this actually have any right to assume we understand the situation on either side short of actually living the experience of Palestinians and Israelis. Neutrality and an attempt to really understand is probably the best stance.
Bro - I am aware of the cost of revolution, even though I have not paid it. I also know that change from dictatorship/tyranny never comes peacefully. If you truly want it, you must fight for the change you say you want to see. Otherwise, it's just useless words.
You make the assumption that you cannot rebuild after a revolution, but history has shown over and over again, that it can be done. The people who do the rebuilding are doing it for succeeding generations, not for themselves because they know it takes time. And there is always the chance for things to get worse. At some point, you have to either fight or accept your sorry lot in life.
I understand many people are not willing to pay that price. But I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees. I do know what I would be willing to die for, and hope it never comes to that.
Hey Neil, I was trying to make the point that just like an animal subjected to brutality, pain and starvation does nothing but sit in its cage and cower, the people of Palestine have no strength or resources to mobilise any kind of 'fight' for their lot to change. I guess, you could say, Hamas is it. That is the fight on offer. I'm not aware there is any other political force in operation - and how could there be when there is a military force in charge. To add complication to this tangled nest of trouble, Palestine is now split with Gaza in the East isolated from the West Bank where I believe there is a Fatah governing organisation (the old PLO) 'tolerated' by the Israeli government. So, two governing bodies, one kind of political the other military, never the twain shall meet. I really can't see how the ordinary Palestinian under occupation in the middle of this conflict can do anything other than survive. It's almost cruel to suggest they have any power to change their circumstance at all.
I read that Vietnam is negotiating with, I think, South Carolina, for state subsidies to build a plant there. Such a thing would surely been unimaginable in the late 60s. The current PM of England came from a prior colony. London's mayor as well. On the other hand, I can't imagine an Irish Catholic immigrant with IRA heritage ever taking such a post. I don't know what produces peace and other continued violence.
If Westerners don't want to be punished for their transgression against the species and humanity, they must fight to liberate the oppressed. Refusal to do so is indication of their guilt and desire to be punished.
What Palestinians do, or do not do, has very little to do with the core of the problem - which is that Israel's 75 year occupation is illegal under international law and if it was ended today the problem would be over. See:
Well that's a most arrogant statement. If you think RFK Jr. hasn't thought a lot about this, you are an idiot. It also seems like you are advocating for the murder of 9 million Jews. Nice.
BTW - Hamas has ruled Gaza for the last, what, 17 years? There is no occupation. It's just a red herring dragged out to keep folks distracted from the real issue.
I find that the person who is first to throw around the term 'idiot' is invariably the one who fits it best. And the remainder of your comments fit that rule.
RFK has been a great environmentalist and consumer advocate, but on Palestine he is completely brainwashed and has his head fully up his ass. Period. Here's a good primer on Gaza:
Norman Finkelstein - Gaza, violence against civilians, and 'terrorism' (2015)
No occupation? Of course not- Gaza isn’t occupied. It’s a prison with fences, walls and IDF security forces around it. People cannot leave or enter without permission. The sensors on the border fences are so sensitive they pick up something as small as a cat going near.
I do not condone Hamas’ actions, but neither do I condone the Israeli government’s actions of the last 75years
So you would let people who have told you they want to kill you and your family into your house without question? Now, you wouldn't know which of the 100 people you let in your house are those killers, but you would let all 100 in, right?
The situation would be resolved nearly immediately if Palestinians would accept Israel's right to exist and disavow and punish (instead of rewarding) terrorism.
I still have to ask the obvious question: why aren't any of the Palestinians kindred spirits in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and Iran not allowing Palestinians to settle with them? I know that Egypt's resistance is because they don't want more terrorists in their country, but don't know about the others. I suspect the reason is the same.
It's probably because they already have (had) a country, called Palestine. Interestingly, at the end of WWII when the West led by the US were staring down their promise of territory to make a state of Israel, they all closed their own doors to the Jewish people. NIMBY'ism at its finest. More complexity (and meddling) - in 1917, during WWI, the British Balfour Declaration, still operating with a default colonial mindset, chose the country of Palestine, which was under the Ottoman Empire, to bribe Israel into supporting their efforts in that war. The Ottomans were defeated and Britain reneged on the deal. The British continued with some really dreadful policies causing much suffering to both Jews and Palestinians in the intervening years before WWII, when finally, they delivered on their promise and displaced the Palestinian people to deposit Israel there. What could possible go wrong? Perhaps they hoped the Palestinians wouldn't notice as they had been meddling with settlement issues in the region for 20 years or so already. And at the same time, it was a move that 'assuaged the guilt' of the atrocity that was the Jewish holocaust - that so many in Europe stood by and did nothing to stop. It was a terrible, colonial tactic by the British, supported fully by the US.
The ayrabs and persians do not have a history of genocide, whether in the roman era or against other semites. nazi ashke khazarian mafia, however, do.
Endless warfare is a common place theme in the Middle East. Genocide however, was seen rarely and the bible ironically had a few commands from a dark god for genocide. talmud likely worships similar et/alien/dark gods.
just go back to rome's hadrian when he renamed judea to palestine. because he hated judah rebels and wanted to rename their homeland, after the philistine enemies.
This is so interesting. Apparently, according to some sources, Herodotus in the 5th Century BCE writes of a place in Syria called 'Palaistinê' between Phoenicia and Egypt. This was about 450 years before Hadrian's proclamation. Lord above, who of us can know the truth!! Perhaps it really is time to find a new way. Nothing else is working is it? What does it take for humans to make peace? Have we really come this far down a timeline and learned NOTHING? One breath away from despair, another breath from hope. Anger and love are the fuel. Peace to all, please, please please
I sincerely hope Bobby listens to you on this as well, Charles. I see Bobby as our best hope, but it a painful hope. Bobby is a brilliant and compassionate man of integrity with this one glaring blind spot that is an enormous disconnect from who he is. Clearly Zionist Israel wields excessive power in American politics so I'd been giving Bobby a pass in the short term, trusting his eyes and heart would open to the brutal and unending tragedy that is life under siege for the Palestinians. I want Bobby in office.
But honestly, I don't see it happening as long as he is so divided within ... spending his life caring and fighting for the dispossessed and downtrodden, but unable to see the grave injustices against the Palestinians and to muster compassion for them (and for the Israeli populace who suffer increasingly as well). Is Bobby in truth the Defender of the defenseless, or is he the defender of the perpetrators?
Meanwhile, I pray for peace and compassion for all who are suffering, injured, terrified, trapped, hungry, thirsty, alone. May angels come to their aid. swiftly and without hesitation. <3
Charles, you talk about this event as if it was an organic clash of two groups who are making emotional decisions that are not going to get them what they are trying to achieve.
Have you heard that the impenetrable wall around Gaza was breached in 15 places and Israeli police and military didn't respond to the attack for hours. It seems to be an intentional creation of a false flag to me.
And why is Israel being given unquestioned support by every US leader -- including Bobby?
Here is a video about this from the Darkhorse Podcast: Israel did not respond to the attack for many hours. How is this possible? (Efrat Fenigson and Bret)
Yes, I think "unwavering" was how he described his support for Israel. While RFK's stance is wonderfully nuanced on many topics, his one-note chorus for Israel is disturbing.
I'm disturbed too. I have been a fan of Kennedy for over 10 years now. He has no nuance on this topic in which no one in the establishment has nuance. Is he a dissenter or is he establishment in disguise?
Part of the reason for the late response is that two out of the three brigades that are normally stationed on the border with Gaza where sent that weekend to the west bank to secure the neo-nazi supremacist settlers who decided to build a sukah (a sort of open-air structure built during the Sukkot Jewish holiday, which comes after the Jewish new year) right inside a palestinian village in the west bank (in a clear "f#ck you, we're coming to throw you out and take over your land, because our supreme nationalist god gave this land to us" to the face of the native palestinian villagers of that area) and two brigades were moved from Gaza to secure these supremacist messianic lunatics (who currently run the israeli government). That's a major reason for the delayed response.
And strangely enough, at the exact same time (while two brigades were away in the west bank) someone decided to organize a music festival (attended by non-religious leftists) right on the Gaza border (which was unsecured becasue the army was securing the provocations of the settlers in the west bank)
From the perspective of the far-right religious-nationalist israeli governemt and settlers, they got everything they could possibly hope for out of this event - Slaughter of leftists (in the festival and kibutzim next to the border); Securing land theft in the west bank; World sympathy and support for the ethnic cleansing they always wanted + for a possible attack in Iran.
I think that finding out who was behind organizing the festival at that peculiar location right at that peculiar time when the army was away + who was behind the order to send the brigades from the Gaza border to the west bank (which means, who among the settlers decided to introduce that major provocation - which neccesitated the move of army brigades to secure it - right at that time) finding out all of these might give us a clue into who was involved with the setting up of this event..
That's right. They showed footage they claimed was live from Palestine of people dancing. But it was daytime footage and it was actually night time there. And as is typical for the controlled media, it turned out to be archival footage of people dancing at a wedding or some other unrelated celebration.
i wonder how humanity will react when they finally find out that palestine was judah and benjamine all the time, the house of isis ra el. IT will be far more impactful than ukraine was in 2022
I imagine their carers will be ruined if they don't support Israel. Perhaps Kennedy feels he can still make significant changes elsewhere and this is worth the price for him?
I think he has the moral courage. I think he also has knowledge, whether conscious or not, that Zionist Israel casts the final ballot. But most disturbingly, I think he is blind to the truth in Palestine. I pray his eyes and heart are soon opened.
Yes that's what our dark history indicates. They pull the strings. All levels of government have been infiltrated over the last several decades.
I can only think that he almost stubbornly refuses to look. I understand sympathizing with Israel, but we must never allow ourselves to turn a blind eye to suffering of any kind by anyone. I mean it's so ironic, look what's happening - another genocide - because we, globally, turn a blind eye,
We all have our flaws, our triggers, our causes, our blind spots; and we all have a responsibility to our fellow beings, all of our fellow beings - to see, listen, and believe them. To give them a chance. You and I know it doesn't take much researching to learn the truth. Why won't Bobby look, listen, and believe as he's done with so so many others? It's beyond heartwrenching.
I agree. I was disturbed when he refused to debate after others have refused to debate hm. But, now, I am really disappointed that he isn't looking at the full picture as he has on so many other controversial issues.
You cannot have 2 million of Palestinians get oppressed, imprisoned, tortured and killed and not expect a blowback.
One can be against Hamas and be Pro-Palestine.
These two ARE mutually exclusive.
One cannot be indignant about the brutality against Jewish families and the bloodshed but be silent about the brutality against Palestinians and their spilled blood for decades at the hands of Israel.
One should be furious and indignant about both.
But let's look at a metaphor to understand the situation. Let's see what would happen if Mexicans pour over the border and reclaim their homeland and then take over American land and take over the American government, all the while being the minority. Let's see how people would feel about becoming a second class citizen to Mexicans reclaiming their homeland...and Native Americans as cherry on top...AND then put Americans inside an open air prison, bomb their families, kill their children and their dogs, and end all hopes for a normal life.
Let's see what would we think then because that's exactly what happened to Palestine. So let's ask ourselves: would we take arms to expulse the "invaders" or would we write our new Mexican congresspersons?
Ask Orthodox Jewish Rabbis what they think about Zionism. They themselves renounce it. Zionism was and is a mistake.
Palestinian and Jewish nationalism must be renounced. After all, neither side has a real claim to the land because it's been occupied by dozens of dynasties, empires and cultures throughout the ages. Israel and Palestine should be converted into one single, nameless State. Their militaries defunded and each individual be given full citizenship rights. Both Palestinian and Jewish peoples living side by side, no one greater than the other.
I think I sort of understand your analogy re mexico and america. Being native myself I have some skin in that game but it doesn't really track because palestine was never a coutnry. The Ottoman turkish empire controlled the palestinian people as well as what we now consider to be the arab world. They were not kind masters. When the Ottoman empire was broken up after WW 1 the new british and french masters were not perfect but at least they did not regularly behead people and put them up on spikes and torture them in gruesome public spectacles. The land of Israel, including the Gaza strip was given to Israel by treaty with the league of nations. That treaty has never been aborgated. Israel has had to fight constantly to maintain itself. The idea that Hamas would stop killing jews if Israel only gave up it's nation is so far beyond absurd I don't even comprehend how it could be imagined. Every arab country has attacked and rejected it's jewish citizens and it's christian citizens as well in most cases. Radical islam does not care about nation states. It cares about destroying the infidels. That would be most if not all of us writing in this comment section. I don't think Israel is going to try to destroy us, but I can pretty much guarantee that if Hamas, Iran, etc had the means they would not hesitate to bomb the hell out of the west, the US, etc.
Actually, while many peoples have rejected the Jewish people, especially the West, no irony intended, it is well known that the Jewish people were well-received in Palestine; this is well known by a lot of people.
The antagonism waged against Israel today is a direct response to Zionism, which has created a bloodcurdling, nightmarish Apartheid in Gaza. Zionism is the big bloodthirsty, racist, demonic monster in the room few are willing to notice.
I am aware of that. But Arabs were welcoming at first, and by 1920 even, largely unconcerned. Read the history straight from the horse's mouth; this from King Hussein writing on the matter back in 1947:
"No people on earth have been less "anti-Semitic" than the Arabs. The persecution of the Jews has been confined almost entirely to the Christian nations of the West. Jews, themselves, will admit that never since the Great Dispersion did Jews develop so freely and reach such importance as in Spain when it was an Arab possession. With very minor exceptions, Jews have lived for many centuries in the Middle East, in complete peace and friendliness with their Arab neighbours.
Damascus, Baghdad, Beirut and other Arab centres have always contained large and prosperous Jewish colonies. Until the Zionist invasion of Palestine began, these Jews received the most generous treatment—far, far better than in Christian Europe. "
Thank you for this correction. I've also been reflecting on the fact that Jewish people were 'given' land in the Middle East by the Allies after the war, instead of a place in Europe, where most of them belonged. Talk about insane! Talk about sowing the seeds for catastrophe ! One can't help thinking that was itself an antisemitic action while pretending to do 'good', and of course appallingly racist towards Palestinian people. Their continuing arrogance, superiority and contempt for non-European races and cultures makes one despair.
If you would take time to read translations of arab/muslim media you would find that the arrogance, superiority and contempt goes both ways. Only difference is that radical islamic leaders in multiple muslim countries literally want to annihilate Israel, the west and the US because we are all evil infidels that must be wiped from the face of the earth.
given that the west has attempted genocide of the species with the mrna shots, their position becomes much more solid now. mistranslations likely too. who told you that they were saying so? The media? The same doctors and lab coats and military dinustrial complex that lied about nordstream ?Those people translated the muslims to us correctly? I don't think so.
Yes and the Ottoman Turks were not known for their kindness to thier subject nations. Think heads on spikes etc. The Allies were not perfect but were much better in their treatment of those people than the Ottoman's were. Yes they carved the territory up and seperated ethnic groups so no uprisings could occur. And yes they restored displaced jews to their original homeland. But they did not behead the palestinians and they did not try to wipe them off the face of the earth as pretty much every arab country has tried to do to the jews.
How did they restore the displaced ashke non hebrews to the land currenly occupied by thousands of years by the house of judah and benjamine in judea, now renamed palestine?
Charles, thank you for your integrity and willingness to correct or clarify some of your statements. Listening to the constant reference to the Palestinian people as less than human is difficult. Their marginalization and oppression are a mirror image of the marginalization of Black people in America. Listening to the perspective of mostly white-dominated media about Israel and Gaza is the same as listening to the narratives about Black people in America. It has been challenging not to take a side for the people of Gaza (I know their pain), but I must try. Like you, I want to see a more beautiful world.
I don't know if peace will evolve or if it can, but I know that truth-telling to create trust is a step in the right direction. So thank you again for the words you write into the world. They make a difference.
Namaste.
"We have to be able to build a world that doesn't exist yet. That's a different imagination." Dr. Marc Lamont Hill
You might find it quite informative to read some translations of arab/muslim news media. Radical islamic leaders actively hate the west, Israel and especially the US. That would be the white people. They want to wipe the evil infidels, meaning all the white guilt ridden liberals, off the face of the earth and they repeatedly say so on their own news broadcasts. The Hamas is calling right now for all arab countries to make Jihad against Israel and the west. Iran is promising to aim long range missles at Israel. I could go on, but really it doesn't take much to realize that whatever racism we have going in the US is child's play compared to the actively violent racism going on in many muslim countries. Oh and btw you might want to look into black racism in muslim countries. It's pretty bad I hear. Like if you are black in some arab countries they are free to spit on you in the street. And well the muslims had just as many black slaves as europe and the US put together. And well they treated their black slaves even more barbarically than the west did.
Most of your comments have been nothing but hearsay. You're not providing any specifics and pretty harmful and only generalized statements and precisely what is a part of the problem and not the solution.
I'm an American living in the Middle East for over a decade. I've never once come across these shows as mentioned above you speak of. Or are they just grouping all Arabs/Muslims together and not respecting there are dozens of Arab countries? Afghanistan and Iran (not Arab) do not represent the Middle East. Also, before you speak, take a look at the US history of meddling in the Middle East. The governments that have been overthrown, the Afghani mujahadeen we supported….
Then tell me if you wouldn't be pissed.
Also, the Arabs did not have as many enslaved people as the US. Your information is quite tragically false and heavily biased.
It seems some of my comments have offended folks and in some cases allegations were made. So I decided to make a blanket comment to cover some of the issues raised and hopefully respond in a way that will clear the air.
Hi all I don't have time to reply to every reply so I am making one comment and hopefully covering most of what was raised in response to different comments I made and will post it in the various places. Sorry for the repitition, but just trying to handle this as gracefully as possible. I don't see any point in debating things directly when it degnerates into personal attacks, so I'm not going there. I am nobody, my opinions are not going to change anything, so why waste energy getting upset with me? Folks who I suspect are alot more knowledgeable than us don't agree, so why should we?
I have never said Israel was squeaky clean. I have also said that maybe us US folks should clean our own dirty laundry first before we slam Israel. I am not slamming either the palestinians or the muslims. I am slamming the radical islamic terroirst groups that so often, for whatever justifiable reasons, seem to be running the show including terrorizing and oppressing their own people. I am watching with horror my own community celebrating a barbaric act of terror and calling it social justice for palestine. That indicates to me that folks are being manipulated unconsiously. I have never said I was 'right' and everyone else was wrong as some of you seem inclined to do. I just have strong opinions as do many of you and we do not have to agree. Please remember that. I am not on the ground with bombs raining down and neither I assume are you and so to theorize about what we would or would not do or whether we would be right or wrong in doing so, or who has the 'real' version of history, is really just an intellectual/ philosphical debate for us. Our opinions in these comments are very unlikely to change the outcome of anything, no matter how heated we become or feel. It's just words, that's all. You can call me racist all you want. Every single human being on this planet is racist in some way. It goes with our evolutionary survival tribal inheritances. I am a mixed blood myself and have watched every skin color, class and religion be racist against every other one. White skinned people in the west have no exclusive patent on racism. My own tribal ancestors were historically quite violent and barbaric and yes extremely racists towards other tribes of exactly the same color skin by the way. Like most native tribes we called ourselves the 'real people'. Which literally meant all other tribal peoples were not quite real, not quite human and so it was allowed, even encouraged to treat them barbarically. Far as I can tell most of our particular global ancestors were much the same at one point. We inherited a mess on many levels and we are trying to sort through it We cannot always do that with peace, love and light in my experience. We can only do our best to walk in integrity with ourselves. I have noticed that many peace loving, non violent communication folks seem afraid of their own inner violence and so it comes out sometimes in unconscious ways and they are often manipulated through that very unconsiousness. Ie they can get quite violent over words while simutaneously spouting peace. My elders taught me that we humans are contradictory creatures. We like to think we are rational, but deep inside we are mostly not. We can cultivate peace but every species on this planet evolved for war also,. We ignore this biological reality at our own peril. Those who completely ignore the warlike, racist and predjudicial parts of their own natures end up acting out that repressed shadow unconsiously and projecting it all around them. I would assume that many of Charles's followers are aware of this and have spent time and energy reflecting on this. It was not my intention to start a firestorm here. I was simply alarmed that there seemed to be such a desire to 'understand' Hamas that their actions are going to continue to be justified. I cannot change that if that is folks want to do. But I cannot keep silent when I believe that is a very dangerous thing to do. I have said my piece and I'm good with it. I am also good with you disagreeing with me. But I ask you out of consideration for other folks here and for Charles himself, lets please not get into personal attacks on each other's character. We don't have any real knowledge about who the person is behind the words when we have never even met them. Rightly or wrongly, we all have very good reasons for believing and feeling as we do. Let's please try to remember that. This is intense stuff and brings up intense feelings. I don't expect or want folks to 'make nice'. But I do expect a baseline respect and avoiding of labelling and name calling directed personally at each other.
Hi all I don't have time to reply to every reply so I am making one comment and hopefully covering most of what was raised in response to different comments I made and will post it in the various places. Sorry for the repitition, but just trying to handle this as gracefully as possible. I don't see any point in debating things directly when it degnerates into personal attacks so I'm not going there. I am nobody, my opinions are not going to change anything, so why waste energy getting upset with me? Folks who I suspect are alot more knowledgeable than us don't agree, so why should we?
I have never said Israel was squeaky clean. I have also said that maybe us US folks should clean our own dirty laundry first before we slam Israel. I am not slamming either the palestinians or the muslims. I am slamming the radical islamic terroirst groups that so often, for whatever justifiable reasons, seem to be running the show including terrorizing and oppressing their own people. I am watching with horror my own community celebrating a barbaric act of terror and calling it social justice for palestine. That indicates to me that folks are being manipulated unconsiously. I have never said I was 'right' and everyone else was wrong as some of you seem inclined to do. I just have strong opinions as do many of you and we do not have to agree. Please remember that. I am not on the ground with bombs raining down and neither I assume are you and so to theorize about what we would or would not do or whether we would be right or wrong in doing so, or who has the 'real' version of history, is really just an intellectual/ philosphical debate for us. Our opinions in these comments are very unlikely to change the outcome of anything, no matter how heated we become or feel. It's just words, that's all. You can call me racist all you want. Every single human being on this planet is racist in some way. It goes with our evolutionary survival tribal inheritances. I am a mixed blood myself and have watched every single skin color, class and religion be racist against every other one. White skinned people in the west have no exclusive patent on racism. My own tribal ancestors were historically quite violent and barbaric and yes extremely racists towards other tribes of exactly the same color skin by the way. Like most native tribes we called ourselves the 'real people'. Which literally meant all other tribal peoples were not quite real, not quite human and so it was allowed, even encouraged to treat them barbarically. Far as I can tell most of our particular global ancestors were much the same at one point. We inherited a mess on many levels and we are trying to sort through it We cannot always do that with peace, love and light in my experience. We can only do our best to walk in integrity with ourselves. I have noticed that many peace loving, non violent communication folks seem afraid of their own inner violence and so it comes out sometimes in unconscious ways and they are often manipulated through that very unconsiousness. Ie they can get quite violent over words while simutaneously spouting peace. My elders taught me that we humans are contradictory creatures. We like to think we are rational, but deep inside we are mostly not. We can cultivate peace but every species on this planet evolved for war also,. We ignore this biological reality at our own peril. Those who completely ignore the warlike, racist and predjudicial parts of their own natures end up acting out that repressed shadow unconsiously and projecting it all around them. I would assume that many of Charles's followers are aware of this and have spent time and energy reflecting on this. It was not my intention to start a firestorm here. I was simply alarmed that there seemed to be such a desire to 'understand' Hamas that their actions are going to continue to be justified. I cannot change that if that is folks want to do. But I cannot keep silent when I believe that is a very dangerous thing to do. I have said my piece and I'm good with it. I am also good with you disagreeing with me. But I ask you out of consideration for other folks here and for Charles himself, lets please not get into personal attacks on each other's character. We don't have any real knowledge about who the person is behind the words when we have never even met them. Rightly or wrongly, we all have very good reasons for believing and feeling as we do. Let's please try to remember that.
Charles, I felt your last essay was "pollyannish" but this is worse. Why are you highlighting and aligning yourself with one opinion piece? Why are you engaging in "what aboutism" in the face of this intentional civilian slaughter and torture by Hamas?
It is essential to distinguish between Hamas and Palestinians.
It is also important to hold the reality that people can be both victims and perpetrators - on all sides (Yuval Harari is excellent on this as a historian.)
Numerous very thoughtful, knowledgeable and skilled people have worked for decades to try to ameliorate the issues in the middle east - many important pieces that extend beyond Israel, Gaza and the West Bank. I have been immersing myself in as much information as possible during the past 9 days. No one with any real insight sees a clear path forward, even when they have hope. For example:
I thought that Efrat Fenigson was saying that Israel military and police intentionally stood back and let Hamas slaughter people. With the totally surveilled wall, she asked how it could go unnoticed that it was breached 15 times.
Did you know that Yuval Harari is an advisor to the World Economic Forum?
Watch the interviews. You seem to be grabbing onto sound bites.
Efrat Fenigson's insight is far more nuanced than you suggest.
Yuval Harari has spoken at Davos and the WEF. He's made strong warnings about AI, globalism and technology - he is NOT promoting their agenda. He warns technology risks dividing the world into wealthy elites and exploited "data colonies".
Yuval Harari truly is a master in the art of Doublespeak.
From one corner of his mouth he "warns" for AI, spreading fear porn while circumventing the true dangers, such as the rapid loss of human imagination and creativity, which is already happening under the influence of the digital mind control already in place.
From the other corner of his mouth, it is him who has helped UN/WEF to write the same agenda you say he's not promoting.
Straight forward he's applauding the looming extinction of concepts like God, human soul and free will.
This guy makes my head feel dizzy and my stomach churn.
Please provide link to evidence that he "helped UN?WEF to write the same agenda..." I have seen lots of allegations but no evidence. I have also seen video compilations to stir up hate for him that were complete manipulations of what he said. I have learned to be very careful. Thanks.
I am concerned that the mislabeling and propaganda around Yuval is designed to silence his important voice. When I go to his interviews, I hear only thoughtful statements warning about the very things the freedom community is concerned with.
I listened to this by Yuval and honestly thought it was awful. It completely misrepresents the history of Hamas, the fact had Israel have been occupying Palestinian Land for decades, that when they were elected Israel declared war on them, that Israel, as is shown, have more terror weapons than can be imagined. It is not straight forward and sadly there are powerful elements on both the Islamic and Jewish side who place a deep religious angle on all this about fulfilling ancient religious fulfillments if the land..
Why are Israel destroying the whole of Gaza, do you really theor intention is not to take all the land in Palestine. Could you imagine how you might feel if the whole of TelAviv was blown to pieces? https://youtu.be/9qaxYQqmzIg?si=iDeITA9c9LmD5v7r
In my view, the path forward is not in political arrangemnts (that's also important but secondary) but rather it lies in the heart of people, in the ability/capacity to see the humanity of another before viewing them as a label (palestinian, israeli, muslim, jew), as well as in coming to terms with and acknowledging the immense and profound trauma that each "side" has caused the other. And in finding ways to heal together.
All of this requires having CONTACT between the "sides" so that they may hear each other, each other's stories and each other's pain, but this contact is currently prevented and denied becasue of the incredible dominance of the sectarian nationalist divisive ideology in both sides.
As someone who was assigned at birth the label 'Jewish' and 'Israeli' (but have already long ago seen through their inaccurate, distorting, corrupting, limiting, imprisoning and divisive nature, and so have shed them) I am noticing that one of the main things that allows this ongoing horror to happen (not only today but it has been going on for more than a century) is that there is such a total SEPARATION AND DISCONNECTION between the "sides" (this is one of the greatest successes of nationalism/sectarianism, to separate people) so that people from both "sides" have no full understanding of the life experience and trauma experience of those on the "other side".
From what I see and feel, this total DISCONNECTION is exactly what allows people to cheer when "our hero fighters" (whom the other side calls terrorists or occupiers) murder, torture, oppress, abuse, slaughter and bomb "them", because each side says "they are evil people who only want to harm us, take our land and kill us/kick us out", and each side has countless examples of evil actions by the other side that are supposed to "prove" the supposed rightness of their claim.
Each "side" is enclosed and contained within its own SECTARIAN BUBBLE and tells itself its own story, about its trauma and difficulties, and is completely unaware of the life experience and trauma of the "other side".
And so, when the other side reacts (in what it calls self-defense) then the first side interprets it as an attack (becasue of its DISCONNECTION from the stories and sense-making of the other side) and tells a story that "those people on the other side" are evil monsters who only want to harm our side..
It's quite amazing how similar the story that each side tells itself to the story that the other side tells itself , it is practically the SAME STORY - we are the victims here who are only protecting ourselves from the aggression of those evil people over there who only want to harm us and hate us for no reason. We have no one to talk to and negotiate with, they are not human beings, they are sons of Satan who hate us from birth, who only want to destroy us and take our land and kick us out - each side speaks the exact same stories!!
And I can't help but notice that all this lack of understanding happens simply because there is NO CONTACT between the "sides". This is the tremendous success of nationalism/tribalism/sectarianism, there is an almost complete disconnection, so that I don't hear the story that the other side tells itself and how they make sense of things, I don't experience their life experience, I don't know anything aboit theor pain, I don't realize how much the story they tell themselves is the same as the story I tell myself, and therefore there is no possibility of experiencing the HUMANITY (the fear, the search for security) that motivates the other, just as it motivates me, and therefore also indifference to the trauma that the other goes through at the hands of "our heroic fighters" (who in the eyes of the "The other side" are murderous terrorists/invaders/oppresors).
It seems to me that the main engine that drives all of this is that almost all the residents of the region undergo a very deep conditioning/indoctrination from a very young age into a separative and SECTARIAN RELIGIOUS-NATIONALIST IDENTITY and learn to believe (contrary to what reality shows) that this separate and divisive identity is what will provide them with protection and security, even though it does THE EXACT OPPOSITE!! (In a moment I will say why it does the exact opposite).
This indoctrination into the separative exclucivist religious-nationalist identity is much more than juat mental brainwashing, but it is mainly the conditioning the of the nervous system and emotional system into IDENTIFICATION with a nationalist-religious label (this label equals me. This is me, This label is where safety and security is to be found), which causes the emotions and the body to react very strongly to anything that might disrupt this identity/label.
Strong reaction that comes from the fact that the body/brain/nervous system has been conditioned to learn - through constant repetition in the first years of life (when the personality is formed), again and again and again, and without questioning - this is who I are, that I am this national-religious identity, therefore anything that questions or does not identify with this national-religious system of ideas is immediately perceived as a threat to my very existence, because I am this identity/the nationalist-religious label, this is me, this is where safety and securoty is at..
It seems to me that those who have fallen into the abyss of sectarianism/tribalism/nationalism (and especially those whose nationalism/tribalism also involves divisive and God-denying sectarian religious beliefs) have been conditioned to believe that saftey & security will be found through group separation and exclusion and a sense of uniqueness from the rest of humanity (a feeling that is so deeply imprinted in those who believe that the label of "Jewish" is who they actually are), that security will be found through an attempt to ensure the safety of ONLY one group of people, only those who were born into the "correct" religious-national label (and everyone who was not born into the correct national-religious label, can go to hell. She matters a little but not nearly as much as the Chosen People, the most valuable and important people in the universe). It sounds ridiculous, but this is a VERY common worldview in the extremely nationalist, ethnocentric and exclucivist Israeli society (which is much more fanatically tribalstic and nationalist than Jews outside israel), and I think it plays a huge huge part in what brought this conflict about in the first place, since the very early days of sectatian zionist nationalism.
To me, this is precisely the blindness of the sectarian nationalist-religious identity: trying to create security ONLY for one group, only for a part of the whole (through division, exclusion, separation from the whole and working to secure the narrow interests of only one nationalist-religious identity), such an attempt - of trying to create security ONLY for the part and ignore what this does to the whole - such an attempt not only can NEVER ever lead to real security but exactly the opposite - this is the number one factor that creates constant conflict and INSECURITY!!!
TRYING TO CREATE SECTARIAN SECURITY - SECURITY ONLY FOR THE PART AND NOT THE WHOLE, ONLY FOR ME AND MY GROUP - IS THE VERY CAUSE OF INSECURITY!!!
In my understanding, tribalism/nationalism and sectarian divisive exoteric religion (which is the POLAR OPPOSITE of what God actually is) is the great disease and blindness of humanity. Is the most destructive and deadly invention that humans have ever invented (not because we are bad, but because we have not psychologocally matured yet and are still blind and in our naiveté we believed that this is how we find will safety & security, without understanding what we are doing, without realizing that we are actually creating constant INSECURITY when we search for security through the sectarian divisive nationalist-religious identity, when we seek security only for the part and not for the whole).
To me it is absolutely clear that it is the world's number one cause of human division, separation, antagonism, hatred, conflict, violence, murder and war..
Charles, while it is good that you made these corrections and clarifications, this latest response is still incredibly problematic in a very basic way. You've made it appear as if the solution to this ongoing crisis is somehow complex or difficult, when it isn't. It's really very simple. As soon as Israel complies with international law and ends its illegal occupation, and pulls back to the 1967 borders, the conflict is over. Period. The onus is solely on Israel to end this.
Here is a link to Norman Finkelstein explaining this very simple fact.
Feels like you actually aren’t making a clear enough discernment between Palestinian civilians and Hamas and you are interchanging them. If Hamas organized a peace march to a fence that basically says “you will be shot” it was an entrapment. Just like how they blow up their own buses full of children.
I heard an Afrproverb recently, "Vengeance is a lazy form of grief." It struck me this is something in reflection we could all benefit from - particularly me.
There are only two places on earth where a Muslim of any sect can worship in peace and safety - Israel and the USA. Change that and the world changes. But they won't.
Blatant lie. These are the kind of deceptions that supremacist zionists keep spreading with their vast Hasbara (propaganda) machine, and gullible americans (by far the most heavily propagandized people on the planet) blindly believe them. There is no "peace and safety" for palestinians in Israel. There is the exact opposite of safety and peace. THE EXACT OPPOSITE!
(I am half Israeli, by the way)
Absolutely everything in Israel is oriented towards dispossesing the local people and ensuring the supremacy and domination of those who were born into the label "jew". It is the most ethnocentric nationaliist and exclucivist country on the planet, operating along neo-nazi racial purity lines, supremacy of the master race and dispossesion of the natives by any means possible.
The most serious and responsible of writers will revise what they have said, in this manner.
Thank you so much for the clarification!
I despaired at your omissions, Charles. Thank you for what you have corrected, but I think you may want to go further. Why did you choose to rewind their history for only two generations? Why not go back to the illegitimate colonial project of British elites and a handful of Zionists to dispossess the Palestinians of their ancestral home? Why should Palestinians pay the price for the millennia of maltreatment of Jews? Half of Gaza’s residents are children who had nothing to do with the ascendancy of Hamas, or any other governing body, for that matter.
For god’s sake, here in America millions of people actively working to hold government to account appear to have no agency whatsoever. What do you expect the largely unemployed, undereducated, underfed (purposely, by Israel) masses of Gaza to do about ‘their’ leadership? You acknowledge awareness of the bloodbath that took place during the 2018 March of Return. Do you suggest they should have attempted an encore in preference to armed resistance? What options did they have? I would suggest none.
"By not including this and many, many other nonviolent peace actions in my description of the policies of the Palestinian leadership, I created a false impression that they have only attempted violence.”
By saying next to nothing about the countless violent actions Israelis and their government have taken against the people of Palestine over the last 75 years, you spoke volumes. Gideon Levy, Norman Finkelstein and a bare handful of other Jews seeking justice could not have been so remiss.
RFK has gone well beyond taking sides — he has chosen his masters. His recent ahistorical rhetoric is shockingly unmoored from-reality. When he promised us he would listen, we did not think he meant to The Lobby.
Israel is not “at war” with a foreign entity, let alone a foreign state. Gaza is an integral part of Israel. “There is one regime governing the entire area from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea,” Israel’s leading human rights organization, B’Tselem, observed some years back, “based on a single organizing principle” of “Jewish supremacy.” What happened on October 7 was a slave revolt INSIDE Israel. Who would condemn any other group in history for attempting to escape a concentration camp? Nobody was coming to help these people. What else could they have done after many failed peaceful protests, we expected them to lie down any die. They did not.
The brutal blockade supported by the US even denied them basic supplies, food, electricity and even water. To call their attempts to breach the walls of their prison a “terrorist attack” is callous and cruel. This was a slave rebellion. Norman Finkelstein lays out the history in this video for people who want to learn https://normanfinkelstein.substack.com/p/video-recording-and-transcript-special his book Gaza is also excellent.
palestine is the homeland of judah, judea. the tribe of judah and benjamine. They are the closest to the true jooish bloodline of jeshua's day. the northern tribes 10 lost, are the slavs aka russians.
The khazarian mafia hae always had a vendetta vs the victims of their mafia murders. They want to genocide slavs, persians, and judah. The chutzhpah of killing someone and their family, stealing their identity, and using it to make the other members of that family pay blood reparations. A nice mafia con. Even ghenghis khan would have admired it.
These are secert alliances and combinations, that Ether 8 warned of.
an interesting pov.
Perhaps RFK Jr did listen, and simply reached a conclusion different from yours. Are you the holder of the pure truth in this issue?
If you had neighbors on all sides of you that wanted to see you dead and tried, over decades (actually centuries), to achieve that goal, what would you do?
And there have been a number of governments overthrown by the "unwashed masses". If the Palestinians truly want different leadership, they must fight for it. There will be bloodshed, but if you are not willing to die for something, I have to wonder what you are really willing to live under.
'If the Palestinians truly want different leadership, they must fight for it' What? I think that sometimes we who live incredibly much easier lives than people in a war zone, forget that we have NO IDEA what could happen to a human living in such conditions. FROM BIRTH to untimely death moreover. Can you imagine for one second being a woman with, say 4 children, living in poverty amongst the rubble of what used to be a home, wondering where the next drink of water is coming from - food? Where the bombing may start up any minute and when the rest of the world appears not to care but instead, to support the side that calls you an 'animal'. I can't imagine how I would cope. I know I wouldn't have any clear thoughts about political mobilisation in those circumstances, I'd be so hungry and afraid and bewildered, I'd be lucky to shit straight. Becoming mobilised to have tea parties with my neighbours and talk about how we can pool our resources (remember, we have none, not even proper wifi, perish the thought) and somehow overthrow the bunch of those (Hamas) who have been driven completely insane with hatred and revenge and now are as bad as the oppressors? 'There will be bloodshed...' uh-huh, course, yeah sure, easy - duh..' What, Neil, in the (assumed) comfort of your own existence in a non-war zone (assuming), are you willing to die for? Or perhaps you are already in a war zone and willing to die for whatever is being fought for? Water? Food? Free speech? Faster internet? Or is it merely just to have your children alive at the end of the day?
Great comment. I think very few of us reading this actually have any right to assume we understand the situation on either side short of actually living the experience of Palestinians and Israelis. Neutrality and an attempt to really understand is probably the best stance.
Bro - I am aware of the cost of revolution, even though I have not paid it. I also know that change from dictatorship/tyranny never comes peacefully. If you truly want it, you must fight for the change you say you want to see. Otherwise, it's just useless words.
You make the assumption that you cannot rebuild after a revolution, but history has shown over and over again, that it can be done. The people who do the rebuilding are doing it for succeeding generations, not for themselves because they know it takes time. And there is always the chance for things to get worse. At some point, you have to either fight or accept your sorry lot in life.
I understand many people are not willing to pay that price. But I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees. I do know what I would be willing to die for, and hope it never comes to that.
Hey Neil, I was trying to make the point that just like an animal subjected to brutality, pain and starvation does nothing but sit in its cage and cower, the people of Palestine have no strength or resources to mobilise any kind of 'fight' for their lot to change. I guess, you could say, Hamas is it. That is the fight on offer. I'm not aware there is any other political force in operation - and how could there be when there is a military force in charge. To add complication to this tangled nest of trouble, Palestine is now split with Gaza in the East isolated from the West Bank where I believe there is a Fatah governing organisation (the old PLO) 'tolerated' by the Israeli government. So, two governing bodies, one kind of political the other military, never the twain shall meet. I really can't see how the ordinary Palestinian under occupation in the middle of this conflict can do anything other than survive. It's almost cruel to suggest they have any power to change their circumstance at all.
I understand the apparent futility of fighting back, but don't accept it. It only took a handful of box cutters to take down the twin towers.
Where did I say I accept fighting back? All of it needs to stop, the endless round of slinging stones, it's mind-numbingly unsuccessful.
I read that Vietnam is negotiating with, I think, South Carolina, for state subsidies to build a plant there. Such a thing would surely been unimaginable in the late 60s. The current PM of England came from a prior colony. London's mayor as well. On the other hand, I can't imagine an Irish Catholic immigrant with IRA heritage ever taking such a post. I don't know what produces peace and other continued violence.
January 6 2021. Fight? Heh
Ray Epps style? CIA false flag style, fighting?
If Westerners don't want to be punished for their transgression against the species and humanity, they must fight to liberate the oppressed. Refusal to do so is indication of their guilt and desire to be punished.
What on earth are you talking about?
as the west judges the middle east, so shall they be judged
Then RFK needs an education.
What Palestinians do, or do not do, has very little to do with the core of the problem - which is that Israel's 75 year occupation is illegal under international law and if it was ended today the problem would be over. See:
Norman Finkelstein - Israel & Palestine
https://youtube.com/watch?v=MON2HL02mec&t=562s
Well that's a most arrogant statement. If you think RFK Jr. hasn't thought a lot about this, you are an idiot. It also seems like you are advocating for the murder of 9 million Jews. Nice.
BTW - Hamas has ruled Gaza for the last, what, 17 years? There is no occupation. It's just a red herring dragged out to keep folks distracted from the real issue.
I find that the person who is first to throw around the term 'idiot' is invariably the one who fits it best. And the remainder of your comments fit that rule.
RFK has been a great environmentalist and consumer advocate, but on Palestine he is completely brainwashed and has his head fully up his ass. Period. Here's a good primer on Gaza:
Norman Finkelstein - Gaza, violence against civilians, and 'terrorism' (2015)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=NmjoCBBHec8
No occupation? Of course not- Gaza isn’t occupied. It’s a prison with fences, walls and IDF security forces around it. People cannot leave or enter without permission. The sensors on the border fences are so sensitive they pick up something as small as a cat going near.
I do not condone Hamas’ actions, but neither do I condone the Israeli government’s actions of the last 75years
So you would let people who have told you they want to kill you and your family into your house without question? Now, you wouldn't know which of the 100 people you let in your house are those killers, but you would let all 100 in, right?
The situation would be resolved nearly immediately if Palestinians would accept Israel's right to exist and disavow and punish (instead of rewarding) terrorism.
I still have to ask the obvious question: why aren't any of the Palestinians kindred spirits in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and Iran not allowing Palestinians to settle with them? I know that Egypt's resistance is because they don't want more terrorists in their country, but don't know about the others. I suspect the reason is the same.
It's probably because they already have (had) a country, called Palestine. Interestingly, at the end of WWII when the West led by the US were staring down their promise of territory to make a state of Israel, they all closed their own doors to the Jewish people. NIMBY'ism at its finest. More complexity (and meddling) - in 1917, during WWI, the British Balfour Declaration, still operating with a default colonial mindset, chose the country of Palestine, which was under the Ottoman Empire, to bribe Israel into supporting their efforts in that war. The Ottomans were defeated and Britain reneged on the deal. The British continued with some really dreadful policies causing much suffering to both Jews and Palestinians in the intervening years before WWII, when finally, they delivered on their promise and displaced the Palestinian people to deposit Israel there. What could possible go wrong? Perhaps they hoped the Palestinians wouldn't notice as they had been meddling with settlement issues in the region for 20 years or so already. And at the same time, it was a move that 'assuaged the guilt' of the atrocity that was the Jewish holocaust - that so many in Europe stood by and did nothing to stop. It was a terrible, colonial tactic by the British, supported fully by the US.
You are assuming a lot…
why do you think killing the tribe of judah and benjamine in palestine is justified to save at most 9 million ashkenazi non hebrews?
The ayrabs and persians do not have a history of genocide, whether in the roman era or against other semites. nazi ashke khazarian mafia, however, do.
Endless warfare is a common place theme in the Middle East. Genocide however, was seen rarely and the bible ironically had a few commands from a dark god for genocide. talmud likely worships similar et/alien/dark gods.
Agreed
just go back to rome's hadrian when he renamed judea to palestine. because he hated judah rebels and wanted to rename their homeland, after the philistine enemies.
This is so interesting. Apparently, according to some sources, Herodotus in the 5th Century BCE writes of a place in Syria called 'Palaistinê' between Phoenicia and Egypt. This was about 450 years before Hadrian's proclamation. Lord above, who of us can know the truth!! Perhaps it really is time to find a new way. Nothing else is working is it? What does it take for humans to make peace? Have we really come this far down a timeline and learned NOTHING? One breath away from despair, another breath from hope. Anger and love are the fuel. Peace to all, please, please please
thanks (again) for your clarity and willingness to correct and expand your statements!
I'm pleased that you made these (quite correct) corrections. I sincerely hope that Bobby listens - carefully - to you.
I sincerely hope Bobby listens to you on this as well, Charles. I see Bobby as our best hope, but it a painful hope. Bobby is a brilliant and compassionate man of integrity with this one glaring blind spot that is an enormous disconnect from who he is. Clearly Zionist Israel wields excessive power in American politics so I'd been giving Bobby a pass in the short term, trusting his eyes and heart would open to the brutal and unending tragedy that is life under siege for the Palestinians. I want Bobby in office.
But honestly, I don't see it happening as long as he is so divided within ... spending his life caring and fighting for the dispossessed and downtrodden, but unable to see the grave injustices against the Palestinians and to muster compassion for them (and for the Israeli populace who suffer increasingly as well). Is Bobby in truth the Defender of the defenseless, or is he the defender of the perpetrators?
Meanwhile, I pray for peace and compassion for all who are suffering, injured, terrified, trapped, hungry, thirsty, alone. May angels come to their aid. swiftly and without hesitation. <3
Charles, you talk about this event as if it was an organic clash of two groups who are making emotional decisions that are not going to get them what they are trying to achieve.
Have you heard that the impenetrable wall around Gaza was breached in 15 places and Israeli police and military didn't respond to the attack for hours. It seems to be an intentional creation of a false flag to me.
And why is Israel being given unquestioned support by every US leader -- including Bobby?
Here is a video about this from the Darkhorse Podcast: Israel did not respond to the attack for many hours. How is this possible? (Efrat Fenigson and Bret)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEfuBg0TIMk&t=5s
Yes, I think "unwavering" was how he described his support for Israel. While RFK's stance is wonderfully nuanced on many topics, his one-note chorus for Israel is disturbing.
I'm disturbed too. I have been a fan of Kennedy for over 10 years now. He has no nuance on this topic in which no one in the establishment has nuance. Is he a dissenter or is he establishment in disguise?
he is simply ignorant, just like me and god's own were.
Part of the reason for the late response is that two out of the three brigades that are normally stationed on the border with Gaza where sent that weekend to the west bank to secure the neo-nazi supremacist settlers who decided to build a sukah (a sort of open-air structure built during the Sukkot Jewish holiday, which comes after the Jewish new year) right inside a palestinian village in the west bank (in a clear "f#ck you, we're coming to throw you out and take over your land, because our supreme nationalist god gave this land to us" to the face of the native palestinian villagers of that area) and two brigades were moved from Gaza to secure these supremacist messianic lunatics (who currently run the israeli government). That's a major reason for the delayed response.
And strangely enough, at the exact same time (while two brigades were away in the west bank) someone decided to organize a music festival (attended by non-religious leftists) right on the Gaza border (which was unsecured becasue the army was securing the provocations of the settlers in the west bank)
From the perspective of the far-right religious-nationalist israeli governemt and settlers, they got everything they could possibly hope for out of this event - Slaughter of leftists (in the festival and kibutzim next to the border); Securing land theft in the west bank; World sympathy and support for the ethnic cleansing they always wanted + for a possible attack in Iran.
I think that finding out who was behind organizing the festival at that peculiar location right at that peculiar time when the army was away + who was behind the order to send the brigades from the Gaza border to the west bank (which means, who among the settlers decided to introduce that major provocation - which neccesitated the move of army brigades to secure it - right at that time) finding out all of these might give us a clue into who was involved with the setting up of this event..
It's very fishy to me that the brigades were not at their station.
They're calling it their 911. It's their chance to go to war.
They should know - they were heavily involved in 911. #DancingIsraelis
the media told us it was dancing palestinians? on 9/11
That's right. They showed footage they claimed was live from Palestine of people dancing. But it was daytime footage and it was actually night time there. And as is typical for the controlled media, it turned out to be archival footage of people dancing at a wedding or some other unrelated celebration.
i wonder how humanity will react when they finally find out that palestine was judah and benjamine all the time, the house of isis ra el. IT will be far more impactful than ukraine was in 2022
good questions. follow the "stand down" orders from benghazi and afrikom too.
Not coincidental, in my opinion.
I imagine their carers will be ruined if they don't support Israel. Perhaps Kennedy feels he can still make significant changes elsewhere and this is worth the price for him?
I, too, had thought this.
Bobby has let his career be ruined before. I thought he had that level of moral courage.
I think he has the moral courage. I think he also has knowledge, whether conscious or not, that Zionist Israel casts the final ballot. But most disturbingly, I think he is blind to the truth in Palestine. I pray his eyes and heart are soon opened.
That's interesting. Are you saying that no one can win the election without the approval of Zionist Israel?
I can't understand why he's not aware about Palestine being an open air prison.
Yes that's what our dark history indicates. They pull the strings. All levels of government have been infiltrated over the last several decades.
I can only think that he almost stubbornly refuses to look. I understand sympathizing with Israel, but we must never allow ourselves to turn a blind eye to suffering of any kind by anyone. I mean it's so ironic, look what's happening - another genocide - because we, globally, turn a blind eye,
We all have our flaws, our triggers, our causes, our blind spots; and we all have a responsibility to our fellow beings, all of our fellow beings - to see, listen, and believe them. To give them a chance. You and I know it doesn't take much researching to learn the truth. Why won't Bobby look, listen, and believe as he's done with so so many others? It's beyond heartwrenching.
I agree. I was disturbed when he refused to debate after others have refused to debate hm. But, now, I am really disappointed that he isn't looking at the full picture as he has on so many other controversial issues.
pearl harbor, they knew and refused to tell admiral kimmel
Yes, and a like power grab ensues.
That's how I see it!
You cannot have 2 million of Palestinians get oppressed, imprisoned, tortured and killed and not expect a blowback.
One can be against Hamas and be Pro-Palestine.
These two ARE mutually exclusive.
One cannot be indignant about the brutality against Jewish families and the bloodshed but be silent about the brutality against Palestinians and their spilled blood for decades at the hands of Israel.
One should be furious and indignant about both.
But let's look at a metaphor to understand the situation. Let's see what would happen if Mexicans pour over the border and reclaim their homeland and then take over American land and take over the American government, all the while being the minority. Let's see how people would feel about becoming a second class citizen to Mexicans reclaiming their homeland...and Native Americans as cherry on top...AND then put Americans inside an open air prison, bomb their families, kill their children and their dogs, and end all hopes for a normal life.
Let's see what would we think then because that's exactly what happened to Palestine. So let's ask ourselves: would we take arms to expulse the "invaders" or would we write our new Mexican congresspersons?
Ask Orthodox Jewish Rabbis what they think about Zionism. They themselves renounce it. Zionism was and is a mistake.
Palestinian and Jewish nationalism must be renounced. After all, neither side has a real claim to the land because it's been occupied by dozens of dynasties, empires and cultures throughout the ages. Israel and Palestine should be converted into one single, nameless State. Their militaries defunded and each individual be given full citizenship rights. Both Palestinian and Jewish peoples living side by side, no one greater than the other.
The first world citizens of the planet.
I think I sort of understand your analogy re mexico and america. Being native myself I have some skin in that game but it doesn't really track because palestine was never a coutnry. The Ottoman turkish empire controlled the palestinian people as well as what we now consider to be the arab world. They were not kind masters. When the Ottoman empire was broken up after WW 1 the new british and french masters were not perfect but at least they did not regularly behead people and put them up on spikes and torture them in gruesome public spectacles. The land of Israel, including the Gaza strip was given to Israel by treaty with the league of nations. That treaty has never been aborgated. Israel has had to fight constantly to maintain itself. The idea that Hamas would stop killing jews if Israel only gave up it's nation is so far beyond absurd I don't even comprehend how it could be imagined. Every arab country has attacked and rejected it's jewish citizens and it's christian citizens as well in most cases. Radical islam does not care about nation states. It cares about destroying the infidels. That would be most if not all of us writing in this comment section. I don't think Israel is going to try to destroy us, but I can pretty much guarantee that if Hamas, Iran, etc had the means they would not hesitate to bomb the hell out of the west, the US, etc.
Actually, while many peoples have rejected the Jewish people, especially the West, no irony intended, it is well known that the Jewish people were well-received in Palestine; this is well known by a lot of people.
The antagonism waged against Israel today is a direct response to Zionism, which has created a bloodcurdling, nightmarish Apartheid in Gaza. Zionism is the big bloodthirsty, racist, demonic monster in the room few are willing to notice.
Don't take it from me. Listen to a Jewish Rabbi, of all people, tell you what he thinks about Zionsim: https://youtu.be/U2H-F0HVKDY?si=XfVh6Pz9cg6pw14r
The land of Israel was given first by the Balfour Declaration in 1917 without any Palestinian input. Check your facts.
Why? No one wanted the Jews. America didn't want them. Britain didn't want them. No one wanted them.
So they took land from a people they thought beneath them.
I am aware of that. But Arabs were welcoming at first, and by 1920 even, largely unconcerned. Read the history straight from the horse's mouth; this from King Hussein writing on the matter back in 1947:
"No people on earth have been less "anti-Semitic" than the Arabs. The persecution of the Jews has been confined almost entirely to the Christian nations of the West. Jews, themselves, will admit that never since the Great Dispersion did Jews develop so freely and reach such importance as in Spain when it was an Arab possession. With very minor exceptions, Jews have lived for many centuries in the Middle East, in complete peace and friendliness with their Arab neighbours.
Damascus, Baghdad, Beirut and other Arab centres have always contained large and prosperous Jewish colonies. Until the Zionist invasion of Palestine began, these Jews received the most generous treatment—far, far better than in Christian Europe. "
http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/kabd_eng.html
Good stuff.
Norman Finklestein on Jimmy Dore said something similar to you...
https://youtu.be/G12Z0td-Nqo
Thank you for this correction. I've also been reflecting on the fact that Jewish people were 'given' land in the Middle East by the Allies after the war, instead of a place in Europe, where most of them belonged. Talk about insane! Talk about sowing the seeds for catastrophe ! One can't help thinking that was itself an antisemitic action while pretending to do 'good', and of course appallingly racist towards Palestinian people. Their continuing arrogance, superiority and contempt for non-European races and cultures makes one despair.
If you would take time to read translations of arab/muslim media you would find that the arrogance, superiority and contempt goes both ways. Only difference is that radical islamic leaders in multiple muslim countries literally want to annihilate Israel, the west and the US because we are all evil infidels that must be wiped from the face of the earth.
given that the west has attempted genocide of the species with the mrna shots, their position becomes much more solid now. mistranslations likely too. who told you that they were saying so? The media? The same doctors and lab coats and military dinustrial complex that lied about nordstream ?Those people translated the muslims to us correctly? I don't think so.
what happened to the people with houses on that land that britain was ordered by the khazarian mafia to give to the ashk mafia?
They were given the land there because it had been part of the Ottoman Empire, which the Allies defeated in WWI.
Yes and the Ottoman Turks were not known for their kindness to thier subject nations. Think heads on spikes etc. The Allies were not perfect but were much better in their treatment of those people than the Ottoman's were. Yes they carved the territory up and seperated ethnic groups so no uprisings could occur. And yes they restored displaced jews to their original homeland. But they did not behead the palestinians and they did not try to wipe them off the face of the earth as pretty much every arab country has tried to do to the jews.
How did they restore the displaced ashke non hebrews to the land currenly occupied by thousands of years by the house of judah and benjamine in judea, now renamed palestine?
ethnic cleansing and depopulation
Charles, thank you for your integrity and willingness to correct or clarify some of your statements. Listening to the constant reference to the Palestinian people as less than human is difficult. Their marginalization and oppression are a mirror image of the marginalization of Black people in America. Listening to the perspective of mostly white-dominated media about Israel and Gaza is the same as listening to the narratives about Black people in America. It has been challenging not to take a side for the people of Gaza (I know their pain), but I must try. Like you, I want to see a more beautiful world.
I don't know if peace will evolve or if it can, but I know that truth-telling to create trust is a step in the right direction. So thank you again for the words you write into the world. They make a difference.
Namaste.
"We have to be able to build a world that doesn't exist yet. That's a different imagination." Dr. Marc Lamont Hill
You might find it quite informative to read some translations of arab/muslim news media. Radical islamic leaders actively hate the west, Israel and especially the US. That would be the white people. They want to wipe the evil infidels, meaning all the white guilt ridden liberals, off the face of the earth and they repeatedly say so on their own news broadcasts. The Hamas is calling right now for all arab countries to make Jihad against Israel and the west. Iran is promising to aim long range missles at Israel. I could go on, but really it doesn't take much to realize that whatever racism we have going in the US is child's play compared to the actively violent racism going on in many muslim countries. Oh and btw you might want to look into black racism in muslim countries. It's pretty bad I hear. Like if you are black in some arab countries they are free to spit on you in the street. And well the muslims had just as many black slaves as europe and the US put together. And well they treated their black slaves even more barbarically than the west did.
Hmm.. Let's take a peek at what ethnic hatred looks like..
"Israelis Sing Racist Chants at Palestinians"
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/P0yY5UbegtY
Most of your comments have been nothing but hearsay. You're not providing any specifics and pretty harmful and only generalized statements and precisely what is a part of the problem and not the solution.
I'm an American living in the Middle East for over a decade. I've never once come across these shows as mentioned above you speak of. Or are they just grouping all Arabs/Muslims together and not respecting there are dozens of Arab countries? Afghanistan and Iran (not Arab) do not represent the Middle East. Also, before you speak, take a look at the US history of meddling in the Middle East. The governments that have been overthrown, the Afghani mujahadeen we supported….
Then tell me if you wouldn't be pissed.
Also, the Arabs did not have as many enslaved people as the US. Your information is quite tragically false and heavily biased.
It seems some of my comments have offended folks and in some cases allegations were made. So I decided to make a blanket comment to cover some of the issues raised and hopefully respond in a way that will clear the air.
Hi all I don't have time to reply to every reply so I am making one comment and hopefully covering most of what was raised in response to different comments I made and will post it in the various places. Sorry for the repitition, but just trying to handle this as gracefully as possible. I don't see any point in debating things directly when it degnerates into personal attacks, so I'm not going there. I am nobody, my opinions are not going to change anything, so why waste energy getting upset with me? Folks who I suspect are alot more knowledgeable than us don't agree, so why should we?
I have never said Israel was squeaky clean. I have also said that maybe us US folks should clean our own dirty laundry first before we slam Israel. I am not slamming either the palestinians or the muslims. I am slamming the radical islamic terroirst groups that so often, for whatever justifiable reasons, seem to be running the show including terrorizing and oppressing their own people. I am watching with horror my own community celebrating a barbaric act of terror and calling it social justice for palestine. That indicates to me that folks are being manipulated unconsiously. I have never said I was 'right' and everyone else was wrong as some of you seem inclined to do. I just have strong opinions as do many of you and we do not have to agree. Please remember that. I am not on the ground with bombs raining down and neither I assume are you and so to theorize about what we would or would not do or whether we would be right or wrong in doing so, or who has the 'real' version of history, is really just an intellectual/ philosphical debate for us. Our opinions in these comments are very unlikely to change the outcome of anything, no matter how heated we become or feel. It's just words, that's all. You can call me racist all you want. Every single human being on this planet is racist in some way. It goes with our evolutionary survival tribal inheritances. I am a mixed blood myself and have watched every skin color, class and religion be racist against every other one. White skinned people in the west have no exclusive patent on racism. My own tribal ancestors were historically quite violent and barbaric and yes extremely racists towards other tribes of exactly the same color skin by the way. Like most native tribes we called ourselves the 'real people'. Which literally meant all other tribal peoples were not quite real, not quite human and so it was allowed, even encouraged to treat them barbarically. Far as I can tell most of our particular global ancestors were much the same at one point. We inherited a mess on many levels and we are trying to sort through it We cannot always do that with peace, love and light in my experience. We can only do our best to walk in integrity with ourselves. I have noticed that many peace loving, non violent communication folks seem afraid of their own inner violence and so it comes out sometimes in unconscious ways and they are often manipulated through that very unconsiousness. Ie they can get quite violent over words while simutaneously spouting peace. My elders taught me that we humans are contradictory creatures. We like to think we are rational, but deep inside we are mostly not. We can cultivate peace but every species on this planet evolved for war also,. We ignore this biological reality at our own peril. Those who completely ignore the warlike, racist and predjudicial parts of their own natures end up acting out that repressed shadow unconsiously and projecting it all around them. I would assume that many of Charles's followers are aware of this and have spent time and energy reflecting on this. It was not my intention to start a firestorm here. I was simply alarmed that there seemed to be such a desire to 'understand' Hamas that their actions are going to continue to be justified. I cannot change that if that is folks want to do. But I cannot keep silent when I believe that is a very dangerous thing to do. I have said my piece and I'm good with it. I am also good with you disagreeing with me. But I ask you out of consideration for other folks here and for Charles himself, lets please not get into personal attacks on each other's character. We don't have any real knowledge about who the person is behind the words when we have never even met them. Rightly or wrongly, we all have very good reasons for believing and feeling as we do. Let's please try to remember that. This is intense stuff and brings up intense feelings. I don't expect or want folks to 'make nice'. But I do expect a baseline respect and avoiding of labelling and name calling directed personally at each other.
Hi all I don't have time to reply to every reply so I am making one comment and hopefully covering most of what was raised in response to different comments I made and will post it in the various places. Sorry for the repitition, but just trying to handle this as gracefully as possible. I don't see any point in debating things directly when it degnerates into personal attacks so I'm not going there. I am nobody, my opinions are not going to change anything, so why waste energy getting upset with me? Folks who I suspect are alot more knowledgeable than us don't agree, so why should we?
I have never said Israel was squeaky clean. I have also said that maybe us US folks should clean our own dirty laundry first before we slam Israel. I am not slamming either the palestinians or the muslims. I am slamming the radical islamic terroirst groups that so often, for whatever justifiable reasons, seem to be running the show including terrorizing and oppressing their own people. I am watching with horror my own community celebrating a barbaric act of terror and calling it social justice for palestine. That indicates to me that folks are being manipulated unconsiously. I have never said I was 'right' and everyone else was wrong as some of you seem inclined to do. I just have strong opinions as do many of you and we do not have to agree. Please remember that. I am not on the ground with bombs raining down and neither I assume are you and so to theorize about what we would or would not do or whether we would be right or wrong in doing so, or who has the 'real' version of history, is really just an intellectual/ philosphical debate for us. Our opinions in these comments are very unlikely to change the outcome of anything, no matter how heated we become or feel. It's just words, that's all. You can call me racist all you want. Every single human being on this planet is racist in some way. It goes with our evolutionary survival tribal inheritances. I am a mixed blood myself and have watched every single skin color, class and religion be racist against every other one. White skinned people in the west have no exclusive patent on racism. My own tribal ancestors were historically quite violent and barbaric and yes extremely racists towards other tribes of exactly the same color skin by the way. Like most native tribes we called ourselves the 'real people'. Which literally meant all other tribal peoples were not quite real, not quite human and so it was allowed, even encouraged to treat them barbarically. Far as I can tell most of our particular global ancestors were much the same at one point. We inherited a mess on many levels and we are trying to sort through it We cannot always do that with peace, love and light in my experience. We can only do our best to walk in integrity with ourselves. I have noticed that many peace loving, non violent communication folks seem afraid of their own inner violence and so it comes out sometimes in unconscious ways and they are often manipulated through that very unconsiousness. Ie they can get quite violent over words while simutaneously spouting peace. My elders taught me that we humans are contradictory creatures. We like to think we are rational, but deep inside we are mostly not. We can cultivate peace but every species on this planet evolved for war also,. We ignore this biological reality at our own peril. Those who completely ignore the warlike, racist and predjudicial parts of their own natures end up acting out that repressed shadow unconsiously and projecting it all around them. I would assume that many of Charles's followers are aware of this and have spent time and energy reflecting on this. It was not my intention to start a firestorm here. I was simply alarmed that there seemed to be such a desire to 'understand' Hamas that their actions are going to continue to be justified. I cannot change that if that is folks want to do. But I cannot keep silent when I believe that is a very dangerous thing to do. I have said my piece and I'm good with it. I am also good with you disagreeing with me. But I ask you out of consideration for other folks here and for Charles himself, lets please not get into personal attacks on each other's character. We don't have any real knowledge about who the person is behind the words when we have never even met them. Rightly or wrongly, we all have very good reasons for believing and feeling as we do. Let's please try to remember that.
Charles, I felt your last essay was "pollyannish" but this is worse. Why are you highlighting and aligning yourself with one opinion piece? Why are you engaging in "what aboutism" in the face of this intentional civilian slaughter and torture by Hamas?
It is essential to distinguish between Hamas and Palestinians.
It is also important to hold the reality that people can be both victims and perpetrators - on all sides (Yuval Harari is excellent on this as a historian.)
Numerous very thoughtful, knowledgeable and skilled people have worked for decades to try to ameliorate the issues in the middle east - many important pieces that extend beyond Israel, Gaza and the West Bank. I have been immersing myself in as much information as possible during the past 9 days. No one with any real insight sees a clear path forward, even when they have hope. For example:
Efrat Fenigson interviewed by Bret Weinstein: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_IAH7PnS_E
Yuval Noah Harari interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dtdlWLPT7o
I thought that Efrat Fenigson was saying that Israel military and police intentionally stood back and let Hamas slaughter people. With the totally surveilled wall, she asked how it could go unnoticed that it was breached 15 times.
Did you know that Yuval Harari is an advisor to the World Economic Forum?
Watch the interviews. You seem to be grabbing onto sound bites.
Efrat Fenigson's insight is far more nuanced than you suggest.
Yuval Harari has spoken at Davos and the WEF. He's made strong warnings about AI, globalism and technology - he is NOT promoting their agenda. He warns technology risks dividing the world into wealthy elites and exploited "data colonies".
Yuval Harari truly is a master in the art of Doublespeak.
From one corner of his mouth he "warns" for AI, spreading fear porn while circumventing the true dangers, such as the rapid loss of human imagination and creativity, which is already happening under the influence of the digital mind control already in place.
From the other corner of his mouth, it is him who has helped UN/WEF to write the same agenda you say he's not promoting.
Straight forward he's applauding the looming extinction of concepts like God, human soul and free will.
This guy makes my head feel dizzy and my stomach churn.
Please provide link to evidence that he "helped UN?WEF to write the same agenda..." I have seen lots of allegations but no evidence. I have also seen video compilations to stir up hate for him that were complete manipulations of what he said. I have learned to be very careful. Thanks.
It is not extremely difficult to provide a link to "evidence that he "helped UN/WEF to write the same agenda"". It's actually on the WEF homepage:
www.weforum.org/agenda/authors/yuval-harari.
If you go to the "agenda" link, it's a large (49,983) collection of articles. It's not "The Agenda" for WEF. One of Yuval's links is to a 2020 Davos talk: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/01/yuval-hararis-warning-davos-speech-future-predications/
I am concerned that the mislabeling and propaganda around Yuval is designed to silence his important voice. When I go to his interviews, I hear only thoughtful statements warning about the very things the freedom community is concerned with.
I listened to this by Yuval and honestly thought it was awful. It completely misrepresents the history of Hamas, the fact had Israel have been occupying Palestinian Land for decades, that when they were elected Israel declared war on them, that Israel, as is shown, have more terror weapons than can be imagined. It is not straight forward and sadly there are powerful elements on both the Islamic and Jewish side who place a deep religious angle on all this about fulfilling ancient religious fulfillments if the land..
Why are Israel destroying the whole of Gaza, do you really theor intention is not to take all the land in Palestine. Could you imagine how you might feel if the whole of TelAviv was blown to pieces? https://youtu.be/9qaxYQqmzIg?si=iDeITA9c9LmD5v7r
In my view, the path forward is not in political arrangemnts (that's also important but secondary) but rather it lies in the heart of people, in the ability/capacity to see the humanity of another before viewing them as a label (palestinian, israeli, muslim, jew), as well as in coming to terms with and acknowledging the immense and profound trauma that each "side" has caused the other. And in finding ways to heal together.
All of this requires having CONTACT between the "sides" so that they may hear each other, each other's stories and each other's pain, but this contact is currently prevented and denied becasue of the incredible dominance of the sectarian nationalist divisive ideology in both sides.
As someone who was assigned at birth the label 'Jewish' and 'Israeli' (but have already long ago seen through their inaccurate, distorting, corrupting, limiting, imprisoning and divisive nature, and so have shed them) I am noticing that one of the main things that allows this ongoing horror to happen (not only today but it has been going on for more than a century) is that there is such a total SEPARATION AND DISCONNECTION between the "sides" (this is one of the greatest successes of nationalism/sectarianism, to separate people) so that people from both "sides" have no full understanding of the life experience and trauma experience of those on the "other side".
From what I see and feel, this total DISCONNECTION is exactly what allows people to cheer when "our hero fighters" (whom the other side calls terrorists or occupiers) murder, torture, oppress, abuse, slaughter and bomb "them", because each side says "they are evil people who only want to harm us, take our land and kill us/kick us out", and each side has countless examples of evil actions by the other side that are supposed to "prove" the supposed rightness of their claim.
Each "side" is enclosed and contained within its own SECTARIAN BUBBLE and tells itself its own story, about its trauma and difficulties, and is completely unaware of the life experience and trauma of the "other side".
And so, when the other side reacts (in what it calls self-defense) then the first side interprets it as an attack (becasue of its DISCONNECTION from the stories and sense-making of the other side) and tells a story that "those people on the other side" are evil monsters who only want to harm our side..
It's quite amazing how similar the story that each side tells itself to the story that the other side tells itself , it is practically the SAME STORY - we are the victims here who are only protecting ourselves from the aggression of those evil people over there who only want to harm us and hate us for no reason. We have no one to talk to and negotiate with, they are not human beings, they are sons of Satan who hate us from birth, who only want to destroy us and take our land and kick us out - each side speaks the exact same stories!!
And I can't help but notice that all this lack of understanding happens simply because there is NO CONTACT between the "sides". This is the tremendous success of nationalism/tribalism/sectarianism, there is an almost complete disconnection, so that I don't hear the story that the other side tells itself and how they make sense of things, I don't experience their life experience, I don't know anything aboit theor pain, I don't realize how much the story they tell themselves is the same as the story I tell myself, and therefore there is no possibility of experiencing the HUMANITY (the fear, the search for security) that motivates the other, just as it motivates me, and therefore also indifference to the trauma that the other goes through at the hands of "our heroic fighters" (who in the eyes of the "The other side" are murderous terrorists/invaders/oppresors).
It seems to me that the main engine that drives all of this is that almost all the residents of the region undergo a very deep conditioning/indoctrination from a very young age into a separative and SECTARIAN RELIGIOUS-NATIONALIST IDENTITY and learn to believe (contrary to what reality shows) that this separate and divisive identity is what will provide them with protection and security, even though it does THE EXACT OPPOSITE!! (In a moment I will say why it does the exact opposite).
This indoctrination into the separative exclucivist religious-nationalist identity is much more than juat mental brainwashing, but it is mainly the conditioning the of the nervous system and emotional system into IDENTIFICATION with a nationalist-religious label (this label equals me. This is me, This label is where safety and security is to be found), which causes the emotions and the body to react very strongly to anything that might disrupt this identity/label.
Strong reaction that comes from the fact that the body/brain/nervous system has been conditioned to learn - through constant repetition in the first years of life (when the personality is formed), again and again and again, and without questioning - this is who I are, that I am this national-religious identity, therefore anything that questions or does not identify with this national-religious system of ideas is immediately perceived as a threat to my very existence, because I am this identity/the nationalist-religious label, this is me, this is where safety and securoty is at..
It seems to me that those who have fallen into the abyss of sectarianism/tribalism/nationalism (and especially those whose nationalism/tribalism also involves divisive and God-denying sectarian religious beliefs) have been conditioned to believe that saftey & security will be found through group separation and exclusion and a sense of uniqueness from the rest of humanity (a feeling that is so deeply imprinted in those who believe that the label of "Jewish" is who they actually are), that security will be found through an attempt to ensure the safety of ONLY one group of people, only those who were born into the "correct" religious-national label (and everyone who was not born into the correct national-religious label, can go to hell. She matters a little but not nearly as much as the Chosen People, the most valuable and important people in the universe). It sounds ridiculous, but this is a VERY common worldview in the extremely nationalist, ethnocentric and exclucivist Israeli society (which is much more fanatically tribalstic and nationalist than Jews outside israel), and I think it plays a huge huge part in what brought this conflict about in the first place, since the very early days of sectatian zionist nationalism.
To me, this is precisely the blindness of the sectarian nationalist-religious identity: trying to create security ONLY for one group, only for a part of the whole (through division, exclusion, separation from the whole and working to secure the narrow interests of only one nationalist-religious identity), such an attempt - of trying to create security ONLY for the part and ignore what this does to the whole - such an attempt not only can NEVER ever lead to real security but exactly the opposite - this is the number one factor that creates constant conflict and INSECURITY!!!
TRYING TO CREATE SECTARIAN SECURITY - SECURITY ONLY FOR THE PART AND NOT THE WHOLE, ONLY FOR ME AND MY GROUP - IS THE VERY CAUSE OF INSECURITY!!!
In my understanding, tribalism/nationalism and sectarian divisive exoteric religion (which is the POLAR OPPOSITE of what God actually is) is the great disease and blindness of humanity. Is the most destructive and deadly invention that humans have ever invented (not because we are bad, but because we have not psychologocally matured yet and are still blind and in our naiveté we believed that this is how we find will safety & security, without understanding what we are doing, without realizing that we are actually creating constant INSECURITY when we search for security through the sectarian divisive nationalist-religious identity, when we seek security only for the part and not for the whole).
To me it is absolutely clear that it is the world's number one cause of human division, separation, antagonism, hatred, conflict, violence, murder and war..
This harmonizes really well with Eisentsein's 'Ascent of Humanity'. Thank you.
In addition, one of the sides really adds to the fire with the concept of Zionism.
https://youtu.be/U2H-F0HVKDY?si=XfVh6Pz9cg6pw14r
Charles, while it is good that you made these corrections and clarifications, this latest response is still incredibly problematic in a very basic way. You've made it appear as if the solution to this ongoing crisis is somehow complex or difficult, when it isn't. It's really very simple. As soon as Israel complies with international law and ends its illegal occupation, and pulls back to the 1967 borders, the conflict is over. Period. The onus is solely on Israel to end this.
Here is a link to Norman Finkelstein explaining this very simple fact.
Norman Finkelstein - Israel & Palestine
https://youtube.com/watch?v=MON2HL02mec&t=562s
Rainbow Medicine-Walker, Stop drinking the Kool-aid. That is all. That is it.
Feels like you actually aren’t making a clear enough discernment between Palestinian civilians and Hamas and you are interchanging them. If Hamas organized a peace march to a fence that basically says “you will be shot” it was an entrapment. Just like how they blow up their own buses full of children.
Hamas is not interested in peace and reconciliation. They want martyrs period.
Precisely. I’m not even sure why they deserve a correction here.
I heard an Afrproverb recently, "Vengeance is a lazy form of grief." It struck me this is something in reflection we could all benefit from - particularly me.
Thank you Charles
Tks Charles!!
There are only two places on earth where a Muslim of any sect can worship in peace and safety - Israel and the USA. Change that and the world changes. But they won't.
Blatant lie. These are the kind of deceptions that supremacist zionists keep spreading with their vast Hasbara (propaganda) machine, and gullible americans (by far the most heavily propagandized people on the planet) blindly believe them. There is no "peace and safety" for palestinians in Israel. There is the exact opposite of safety and peace. THE EXACT OPPOSITE!
(I am half Israeli, by the way)
Absolutely everything in Israel is oriented towards dispossesing the local people and ensuring the supremacy and domination of those who were born into the label "jew". It is the most ethnocentric nationaliist and exclucivist country on the planet, operating along neo-nazi racial purity lines, supremacy of the master race and dispossesion of the natives by any means possible.
https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/this-way-for-the-genocide-ladies
And here https://cjhopkins.substack.com/p/israels-911?
I would say Canada too.